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I would love Georgia to be, and I hope it will be, moving in a faster phase towards EU and away from Russia. I want Georgia to be more independent with people who are more open to diverse communities, people who are more empathetic and nice and open to queer people. I want a country where everybody can feel safer and healthier and be able to express themselves and not live in fear. I know that we have the potential for that; it just takes a lot of effort to get there.

Felix Meier: Our guest today and I’m hoping I’m pronouncing it correctly is Mariam, an activist from Georgia. Mariam how are you?

Mariam: First of all I have to thank you for letting me be here and lettingme voice my voice. I’m okay, thank you, what about you?

Felix Meier: I’m also okay.

Mariam: Could have been better could have been worse, yeah.

Felix Meier: Maybe, could you tell us a bit about yourself and your activism?

Mariam: Yes, of course as you said I’m Mari, I’m 23 years old and right now one of the things that I put my most time into is activism, actively trying to stand for different causes for my country.

Felix Meier: And why are you doing what you are doing? What keeps you going?

Mariam: So you may already know, as Saba said, what is happening in Georgia right now. One of the main reasons we’re activists and we’re doing what we’re doing, is because we don’t want to be dragged back to the shadow of oppression. We do not want to be dragged back to the life where people are afraid to live, to love, to be free. And it’s all from the country, that has shown us, how hate works, and how oppression works, who has occupied our territories, who has war with Ukraine right now and has had it before as well. We we do not want to go back to that. That is one of the main reasons we are fighting. And to say more of a personal reason: It’s because I love my country, I love my family, I love my friends. I mean this with all my heart when I say this. They are one of the biggest reasons why I want us to have a better future where we live.

Felix Meier: You have already talked about it and we have a different interview on the broader sides of what is happening in Georgia right now. However, to keep it short, for a few months now, there have been protests going on. Are you involved with these protests?

Mariam: Yes of course. You know how you can always say that I can be involved even more. I feel like it is an extent, but I would say that I am still actively involved in any way I feel I can be. It is not just standing on the streets and holding a banner, which of course I am also doing, but it is also like sharing on my social platform all kinds of information, trying to reach people that are not just in my bubble, and that are not just my friends but some other people as well. Because right now in Georgia, there is a huge a problem with misinformation and huge propaganda that our government is trying to carry out. I would say that my activism also involves trying to reach different people and a broader audience with really what is happening, so that so social aspect, being on the streets, spending a lot of time on that. Of course, every time I get the chance to talk to people, somehow you always have to squeeze in the topic of what is happening in Georgia or somewhere else.

Felix Meier: Shifting to today’s topic, which is more on the side of queer activism: Would you say there is a special role that queer people play in protesting? There has been this whole history of queer activism, deriving from Christopher Street Day, in the USA mainly. However, would you say that special role that applies to queer people in Georgia right now?

Mariam: Yes, I would say so, definitely, in the sense that queer people in general, I would like to say, are a lot more aware and really sensitive towards discrimination, towards oppression. Queer people in Georgia were one of the first people who would also actively come outside and try to raise their voices, organize people, share the knowledge, and raise awareness, about not just what is happening towards queer people but about what is happening overall in the country. Right now, the problem is so big, that it does not only involve queer people or some minorities, it involves the whole country. I would say that it is amazing that the queer community in Georgia is just talking about it in the bigger aspect as well and very actively protesting, doing all kinds of discussions, thinking of what we can do to make Georgia a safer place for queer people and for like every other person in general.

Felix Meier: So you would say, there is this notion of just standing together and not really standing just for queer rights?

Mariam: Exactly, exactly. You said it perfectly. We have to be; and we hope that in the future, when things get a little better, everybody is going to also stand for queer rights stand up for it, we hope.

Felix Meier: Is it mainly young people you are protesting with?

Mariam: I would say mostly but not only. When you go on the protest, you meet all kinds of people. You meet people who are the age of my grandparents. My grandparents themselves would love to be standing on the streets, but unfortunately, their health is not letting them do that. What I am trying to say is that it is all kinds of people. Mainly of course young people who were born and raised in free Georgia. Because if we are talking about older people, a lot of them were born and raised in the regime of the Soviet Union. And we, myself included, I was born in a free and more independent Georgia. We know what our government is right now trying to take away from us. Therefore, of course we are more actively fighting for the cause.

Felix Meier: So would you say that it would be an oversimplification, so to speak, to just speak of the struggle between the old generation, the old orthodox generation, and the young pro EU generation?

Mariam: There is a struggle, of course. I cannot say: “it’s nothing, we’re all the same side”. No, unfortunately that’s not the case. but as I said before, that’s one of the reasons, those people were raised and born, and had completely different lives. They had different propaganda worked on them. They live in this big fear what can happen if you actively go in protest, if you go against your government. This fear is real because they’ve seen what may happen in their past. Therefore, they’re usually, I would say, driven by fear and young people are more brave in that sense. Of course, there is a struggle to fully understand each other, but I would say we’re still trying. Young people trying to be more open, to have talks.

I would just say that it starts with your family. Every friend I know, they have family members who are not on the same side as we are, who say “oh yeah the government is doing whatever they have to do to keep the peace”. Nevertheless, everybody is trying to talk to their grandparents, their aunts, their uncles, openly trying to change their perspective. I would not say that is always working out because some of the traumas and some of the ideas are rooted very deeply, because you know propaganda can work really amazingly on some people, unfortunately. Especially if we are talking about a developing country where majority of the people are poor. There are economical struggles, it’s really easier to manipulate those people but let me just say that we’re still trying. It’s a lot to comprehend, to feel, to live with but well, nobody ever got their freedom, democracy the easy way you know? Unfortunately.

Felix Meier: You just talked about your personal activism and being active on the street. Could you maybe elaborate the experience you have made being active and on the street?

Mariam: I have been an activist for many years now. Living in a country like Georgia comes with this side effect of having to actively protest some things. Because there is so much to change for the better. Personally for me, for a person who is young, who would love to be enjoying their life, spending time with their friends, doing their job, studying without too much worry about what may happen in their country. That has not been the case for me or my friends for the last few years at all.

Because we have to every day, and I mean this like every day, think about what is going to happen tonight, what is going to happen in the evening, is one of my friends going to be in prison, am I going to be in prison in the evening, or throughout the day. I personally, of course, go out on the streets a lot, because this is the way of really showing, physically showing when you are against something. That takes a lot of your time and energy that you could be spending on something else. However, the cause is so important that my friends and I always find time for this.

And as I said before, it’s not only just going on the streets but it’s also a lot of talking, raising awareness a lot of times with maybe your friends and people you already know. It is important just to know ways of how to reach wider audiences and to talk to them and people who are maybe standing somewhere in between and have not decided on what they think about this protest or about queer people in Georgia. You are trying to help them understand the reality. I do not know, it is hard to explain because there are so many aspects and so many points of it.

Felix Meier: Speaking of queer people, some say that Georgian culture developed around traditional Christian Orthodox values. Right now, the struggles for queer rights and for feminism are framed as “western values” that should not be a part of Georgia. Is that something you have experienced people saying and what would you think about that?

Mariam: Definitely. Just to give a little bit of context: Georgia is one of the first countries to adopt Christianity and the religion itself plays a very huge role. Many parts of Georgian traditions, values, culture has been shaped around it. Right now, I would say that it’s not that much about religion and faith. Homophobia is used just as a weapon to be used by government and by the church to shift the focus of the real problems happening in the country. We have lots of problems; the biggest problem would probably be poverty and horrible working conditions and no healthcare etc.

But the government doesn’t want to concentrate and focus on them. So they’re using homophobia as a weapon to shift the focus and make it look like it’s the biggest problem a country could be facing right now, artificially creating all the attention around this topic. Because religion had such a huge part in the development of Georgian culture and values yes like some people would still be I guess more close minded towards LGBTQ+ community but right now that’s not the only case. It’s also just the government really working on demonizing this topic.

Felix Meier: Okay, we have seen this shift in other countries as well, for example in the USA at the moment. Would you say that in Georgia, these struggles are recent or have they been going on for years?

Mariam: Unfortunately, it is something that has been going for years. Before it was just the attitudes and behaviors of the society towards the queer people, but in 2024 the government implemented the so-called “Law on Family Values and Protection of Minors”. It is of course about banning everything that involves anything close to LGBTQ+ rights. One of the worst things about this is that it is very vague and it can mean many things. It could mean that you cannot publicly take out symbols like rainbow flags or anything like that. Of course, it depends, the law also bans all kinds of gender affirming healthcare. So lately, as I said, it got much worse because it is on a constitutional level as well. But it’s been a problem for as long as I can remember. That is also why we have never had a pride march in the existence of Georgia, which is very sad. However, hopefully one day we get there.

Felix Meier: Speaking of hope: what do you see for Georgia in the future and especially for queer people in Georgia?

Mariam: Well, it is a very hard question because I want to answer how I I want to see it. I would love it to be, and I hope it will be, moving in a faster phase towards EU and away from Russia. I want Georgia to be more independent with people who are more open to diverse communities, people who are more empathetic and nice and open to queer people. I want a country where everybody can feel safer and healthier and be able to express themselves and not live in fear. I know that we have the potential for that; it just takes a lot of effort to get there.

Felix Meier: Finally, speaking about young activism, the topic of this Landeskonferenz: Would you say that it is especially important for young people to take part in activism?

Mariam: I would say it is the most important to have young people actively involved in activism because we have this future. Older people as well, but it is especially us who have to actively fight for what we want right now, for what’s important and relevant right now. Because if we do not do it, I do not think others would do it as well or put that much effort into this. I would always try to show young people, people my age, people younger or older than me, how important it is that we fight for our rights and that we fight for our values.

Felix Meier: I would just leave it like that because I think that’s a really strong ending. Mariam thank you so much for the interview, thank you for being here. We wish you all the best.

Mariam: Thank you for giving us the space and thank you everyone for watching and listening. But still come to Georgia, we have great food!